Today I present my interview with celebrity biographer Marshall Terrill. I happened to know Marshall slightly through my day job at Arizona State University (where he also works), but did not know until recently about his sideline of writing celebrity biographies – or the incredible dedication he has given a craft that is, in his words, an “expensive hobby.”
His interview provides a very candid look at his book writing career, and offers lots of specific advice to writers who are interested in pursuing this nonfiction genre.
Tell us about your professional background and your introduction to writing nonfiction.
My introduction to writing came as a result of unfortunate personal circumstances. Let’s just say my writing career was as much a surprise to me as it was to anyone else.
In the late 1980s I worked in the mailroom for Phoenix businessman Charles Keating, who was later sent to federal prison as a result of a savings and loan scandal. At the time I worked for Keating I was attending college, studying business and was in the first year of my marriage. I had hitched my wagon to his star in hopes that one day I would work in a higher job capacity for him when I graduated college. When Keating went to prison, I was out work and my future looked bleak. Because of the stress, my wife left me and so I was very much at a crossroads in my life. My father called me from Washington D.C. and said, “Well, you just lost your job and your wife left you. What’s your next trick going to be?”
What I said took us both by surprise. “Actually, I want to move back to Washington D.C. and write a book on the life of Steve McQueen.” The Library of Congress was not far from my parents’ home, which is where I conducted a majority of my research. My dad said, “Why on earth would you want to do a thing like that? I could barely get you to read in high school.” I told him that I had always wanted to write a book on Steve McQueen and that something had compelled me to do this. He thought for a moment and said, “Well, you might as well do it while you’re young because if you fail, you can recover.” So that was it. I moved back into my parents’ home at the age of 24 and stayed there until I was 28. “Steve McQueen: Portrait of an American Rebel” was published in December 1993 just as I turned 29.
What motivated you to write your first book?
I had read other books on McQueen and felt they focused on the bad-boy behavior, the man on the motorcycle if you will, and zipped through his film work. They had only covered parts of his life, but largely ignoring his acting. There was not one all-encompassing biography of his life and I felt the market had demanded it. I’ve always felt he was a terrific film actor, perhaps the best of his generation, and was greatly underrated in his lifetime. Turned out I was right. Every co-star I interviewed said McQueen was gifted and that he was the best actor and they had ever worked with and had this incredible screen presence. What’s amazing to me is that his legacy grows with each passing year. Today he is the most emulated actor in Hollywood and in the last few years, he’s made Forbes’ Top 10 list of dead celebrity earners. Not bad for a guy who died more than 30 years ago.
How did you settle on biography as a nonfiction writing genre?
Because I think like most non-fiction readers do – if you’re going to take the time to read a book, you might as well learn something. Fiction to me is more of an escape and if I wanted to escape, I’ll go to the movies or rent a DVD. There’s so much you can learn about life when you read non-fiction. You can learn about history, human behavior, psychology, triumph and tragedy, and invaluable life lessons.
What is the greatest challenge in writing a good biography?
The monumental effort it takes to put it all together. It’s the ultimate jigsaw when you really come down to it, and you never know what challenges or roadblocks you’ll face. I wrote a book with boxer Ken Norton that I thought would take maybe a year at most. However, before I met him, he was in a life-threatening car accident and his memory was completely wiped out. So instead of him telling me his story, I went to the library and researched his entire life, which took almost four years. As I began to outline his life, I had to repeat back to him his life story, which triggered his memory. It was a very strange experience, but luckily we pulled it off.
Another interesting experience that took me much longer was the seven years I spent “Maravich” (a biography of basketball legend “Pistol” Pete Maravich co-authored with Wayne Federman) but two of those years were committed to transcribing 300 interviews. That is a very tedious process. On top of that I spent another few years culling other information that included newspaper and magazine articles, official documents, memorabilia and interviews with people who knew the subject. When you’re done with the research, you have to assemble all of that information together to tell the story. It’s a Herculean effort. Then there’s the post-production process: editing, trying to find an agent/publisher and finally, promotion. You can write the greatest book in the world but if no one knows about it, you’ve simply wasted your times. Those are all skills learned along the way that aren’t taught but are self-learned. You either sink or swim.
You’ve managed to write 15 books over the past 20 years, often while holding down day jobs that involve writing as well. What are your tips for managing one’s writing time effectively?
It all boils down to dedication, which is 90 percent of the battle. People always ask me, “What’s the secret of getting published?” I tell them there’s no real secret to writing a book – you get on the computer and you write. I mainly see two big problems: 1.) People give up way too easily. Are they willing to put in the time that is required to finish the task? Sometimes that task is a year; other times it is seven years. … When I wrote the first book, I worked 8 to 10 hours a day for three-and-a-half years straight. You have to have that sort of dedication to get a book published or it’s just not going to happen. 2.) The other problem I see is a form of self-sabotage and it happens more often than not. I’ve seen many writers start a book, write about half the manuscript, then drop that project and start another. Or they’ll write a chapter and then go back and edit it to the point where they can’t go forward. They think this is perfectly normal. I don’t. I say finish the first book to the point of perfection and then move onto the next project. I’ve seen so many stalled careers because the writer can’t complete the first project.
Set aside a time each day and write. What worked best for me was to write an hour a day before/after work and four to five hours on Saturday and Sunday. Someone who has kids is going to have a harder time, and that’s the harsh reality. I don’t have kids and a very understanding wife, who made a lot of sacrifices so I could write my books.
How have your day jobs augmented your career as a celebrity biographer?
It took a while for me to get it through my thick head that I couldn’t earn a living at simply writing non-fiction books. I dedicated 10 years of my life to make it work and I just couldn’t. I owned a house and took in boarders (that’s a book in and of itself!), took part-time jobs to bring in some sort of income to pay the bills and I was financially treading water the entire time. That gets old after a while. Unless you are selling millions of books, it’s just not going to happen because of the way book that deals are structured, which is always in favor of the publisher. And that’s not a negative – the publisher is putting up the money and taking the risk, so they should be rewarded. For example, a typical hardback book will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 to produce. The publisher sells that to the wholesaler/retailer somewhere in the range of $12 to $15. The publisher makes somewhere between $7 and $10 per book and the royalty for the writer is around $2 to $3 depending on what you’ve negotiated. Everybody thinks they’re going to get on Oprah Winfrey and sell a million books, but that’s not reality. It’s like banking your future on winning the lottery.
Most of my books sell somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 copies, depending on what kind of publicity I get and if the timing is good (most of my books are timed on anniversaries and key dates so I have a news hook to pitch to the media). Realistically, I make between $20,000 to $30,000 a book, and keep in mind royalty checks are spread out six months apart. It’s not as if the publisher is going to let you have all that money at once. But if you weigh the paycheck vs. the time I’ve put into writing the book, money spent on editors, travel, postage, research, long-distance phone calls and office supplies, it’s literally pennies on the dollar. It’s supplemental income at best, but the work is full-time. I call writing my “expensive hobby” because it costs money to write a book. Ask any published non-fiction writer if it cost them money to pursue their books and they’ll be able to show you their tax receipts.
After 10 years of writing books from home, I decided it was time to get a job because I didn’t want to be 40, have no pension or a big hole on my resume. So when an opportunity arose at a local newspaper as a journalist, I took it. It was a practical decision because it’s what I loved to do and I could continue to write my books on the side. I would have remained a journalist for the rest of my life but then the economic crash hit our country, and I could see the handwriting on the wall. Newspapers got hit very hard and so I made the switch to the other side – public relations. I knew how to get publicity from my books and what made for a good news story, so it was a very easy transition. I work now for Arizona State University in Public Affairs.
Your website mentions you write your books with Cheryl Hosmer, a developmental editor/writer. How does your partnership work?
I instinctively knew that a big part of my success was that when I turned in a manuscript, it was fully edited. Many reasons why other writers don’t get published is that their manuscripts needed a lot of editing. This is where the ego gets in the way. I’ve talked to many young writers who say, “I’m such a good writer that I don’t need editing,” or they didn’t have the money to pay an editor. I’ve been in publishing now more than 20 years and most of my manuscripts have at least two editors, sometimes three and four. If you write a 150,000 word manuscript, there’s bound to be mistakes, typos and grammatical errors. My first draft always has mistakes, and it’s simply a part of the process to clean it up. I also like to have input and the very first thing I tell editors is, “Don’t be afraid to tell me when I’m wrong or off base.” Just because I’ve had success getting published doesn’t mean I’m perfect or can be wrong.
Every finished manuscript will have mistakes. Publishing houses no longer have line editors who will comb over your book looking for mistakes. They expect your manuscript to be near perfect, and they don’t have the time or money to help you clean it up. So that’s why I’ve formed a partnership with Cheryl Hosmer, who has edited several of my books. So we offer these editing services to writers who are serious about getting published. And of course, they get to pick my brain on the publishing industry. I’ve helped many people turn their manuscripts into books.
What are some benefits of writer-editor collaborations such as the one you have with Hosmer?
Many benefits come to mind. The first is that I am not alone in the writing process. I have a sounding board in case I am way off. The trick is to find someone you completely trust, someone who will tell you the truth but not step on your creative toes. I recently read a great book called “Starting Over,” a book by Ken Sharp on the making of John Lennon’s “Double Fantasy.” The producer of that album was a veteran named Jack Douglas. Douglas said Lennon was such a force of nature that his job was to sit behind the recording console and not get in Lennon’s way. That’s what a good editor should do. Stand back, let the author do his/her thing, but be ready to give advice when called upon.
What writing projects are next for you?
None in the foreseeable future. This last book, “Steve McQueen: The Life and Legend of a Hollywood Icon,” took a lot out of me in terms of physical, emotional and mental exhaustion. Each time I start a book, it’s like going to literary boot camp for five years. While I like the end result, the experience isn’t always so pleasant because of the intensity of what I have to go through to get published. I’m not saying I’ll never write again, but I’m taking a very long break.
Any advice to nonfiction writers in today’s unpredictable market?
Know the market, know what publishers are looking for, and know who your readers are. Publishers certainly care about the writing, but they care more about the number of books they can sell. Not only do they want you to tell them why it’s a great book, but they want to know how you’re going to sell the book, who is the market, why readers will buy and how many books will they sell. It’s a tough business and failure is not an option in these fiscally tough times. Learn how to write a killer proposal and take the guess work out of it for publishers.
Is there anything else we haven’t covered that you’d like to add?
I don’t want to come off as sounding very negative because that’s not my intent. My intent is to paint a very realistic picture of what a writer goes through in order to get a book published. Everyone seems to think it’s a glamorous profession or something they can do if they don’t want to get a real job. The reality is that it is extremely hard work. People think that writing a book is a warm and fuzzy experience and an easy lifestyle. If you talk to any published author, you’ll find that’s not the case. I once interviewed Jackie Collins and I asked her about her work ethic. She puts in 8 to 10 hours a day on the computer. I hear Steven King writes 12 hours a day. And something needs to be explained here –writing is physically and emotionally exhausting. It’s a serious workout. When you are finished, you are absolutely wiped out at the end of the day. Needless to say it’s a lot of hard work, sacrifice and time spent alone. There were many times when my wife had to eat dinner by herself, or spend weekends with her friends because I was working. I’ve also had to sacrifice time away from my dog, a bike ride around the lake, or an evening with family and friends. However, there’s a positive here – my work has granted me friendships and life experiences I would have never otherwise had, and worldly experiences that can be taught in a textbook.
My final piece of advice is to write every book with the idea that it’s going to be a labor of love because most likely there won’t be a financial return. And if there is any return at all, then it’s all gravy. The only reason you should ever write a book is because your heart and soul is aching to do it, and you can’t move on in life unless you do.
Marshall’s latest book, “Steve McQueen: The Life and Legend of a Hollywood Icon,” is available on Amazon and at major book retailers.